Post by: tjaart on October 09, 2016, 05:17:01 PM
I purchased the following coin from a friend on this forum. It was described as an ancient counterfeit.
CON-STANT-INVSAVG
Armoured portrait with spear looking left
Campgate, 6? rows, doors open, 4 turrets, P in l., R in r., VIRTV-SAVGG
RS
Rome mint
19mm, 3.3g
It seems to combine the obv from RIC VII Rome 177 with a different reverse? I assume this is an unofficial/barbarous campgate?
The photos are from the seller.
Thanks!
Tjaart
Post by: Victor on October 09, 2016, 05:48:12 PM
the size and weight are spot on for official
p.s. I could be wrong though :)
Post by: Genio popvli romani on October 10, 2016, 02:19:29 PM
Post by: tjaart on October 10, 2016, 02:25:39 PM
do you have a photo of the ebay coin (just saw it.)? In my opinion it seems cast a well but it feels and looks an ancient cast. Is this possible? If cast, ancient or modern?
@Victor: I would love for this to be official...
Post by: Victor on October 10, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
Post by: Genio popvli romani on October 10, 2016, 02:42:56 PM
The picture is attached to my previous message.
Ancient Constantine cast imitations are very rare, most of the time they are struck but some exist I have seen some specimens...
Post by: tjaart on October 10, 2016, 02:45:29 PM
Would love to own that ebay example. Never even saw it go up.
Post by: Victor on October 10, 2016, 02:48:13 PM
Never even saw it go up.
I missed it also.
Post by: Genio popvli romani on October 10, 2016, 02:54:10 PM
Never even saw it go up.
I missed it also.
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/272374873826
I won another one but not this one (I believed I was the only one who have seen it...but unfortunately not)
Post by: tjaart on October 10, 2016, 03:03:45 PM
Post by: Victor on October 10, 2016, 03:31:34 PM
I guess it pays off to go through all the roman coin listed on ebay.
the problem for me, is that I usually only check each auction site once a week, so I search from seven days out. I will miss some auctions if the people do not list for a week though, for example if they list a three day auction, one or two days after I have searched, I will not see the listing.
not everyone in Europe ships to the US either. The seller in the above listing does not; but sometimes if you ask they will.
Post by: tjaart on October 10, 2016, 03:33:28 PM
Post by: Genio popvli romani on October 10, 2016, 03:51:48 PM
Post by: Victor on October 10, 2016, 04:10:25 PM
I check every day the result listing for the next 24 hours.
I am going to try the 24 hour search and see how it works for me.
Post by: Nikko on October 10, 2016, 05:24:03 PM
Never even saw it go up.
I missed it also.
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/272374873826
I won another one but not this one (I believed I was the only one who have seen it...but unfortunately not)
And I was an under bidder :D
Post by: romeman on November 01, 2016, 07:41:39 AM
Such casts are sadly not uncommon. A similarly produced example is also attached here.
If the obverse and reverse were taken from a single coin, it would be a very rare one. The type from Rome - VIRTVS AVGG with 4 turrets and open doors - is always rare. In total, there are 32 known examples (in all museums and private hands). The variety with Constantine in bust G8 left (I call it RIC190B) is known from a single example, from officina P (see below), but none from off. S. The original of the cast would be the first one.
Post by: tjaart on November 02, 2016, 11:26:19 AM
That is a pity :/
Thanks!
Tjaart
Post by: tjaart on August 24, 2020, 03:55:32 PM
I thought I would resurrect this specific topic as I am going through my collection taking photographs and updating/fixing entries. While taking the photo for this coin, I noticed that it seems to have what looks like an internal copper core with some of the corrosion showing through. Would the prevailing opinion still be that this example is a modern cast? Or could it be ancient cast given the corrosion?
Looking forward to your latest thoughts.
T
Post by: romeman on August 25, 2020, 10:50:09 AM
Ancient casts are interesting. During the tetrarchy there were real factories producing cast coins in clay molds. I have seen hundreds of such clay molds, but very few of the casts thus produced. Presumably the casts went to the melting pots when found by the authorities.
During the period of concern here, around 318-321, very few such casts were produced, if any. There are no such clay molds to my knowledge. Instead, the forgers produced dies and struck coins. They either used their own metal, or when possible, the “illegal” coins of Licinius. When Constantine and Licinius fell out, coins produced in mints under Licinius ceased to be legal tender in the west. They basically became worthless. But the forgers used them as flans, striking western types with their new dies. Such overstruck coins are common.
This particular coin could theoretically be an exception, a cast produced at about the time of the original. But in my view, the likelihood is far greater that it is a modern product.
Post by: Victor on August 25, 2020, 10:58:38 AM
It doesn't look like there is a copper core. I would guess that the coppery looking bits may have been something else that was in contact with the coin. I have several coins that have gotten stuck together because of corrosion. The presence of such corrosion does seem to indicate older rather than more recent for the coin.
Post by: tjaart on August 27, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Thanks!
Tjaart