Author Topic: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse  (Read 4837 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tenbobbit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Country: gb
Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« on: July 15, 2015, 05:24:51 AM »
Hi Victor,
This is a coin I got in a job lot when I started collecting LRB's.
I thought nothing more of it apart from being a " barbarous " type until I was browsing VCoins the other day.
A version of this coin is currently being offered for sale by " romae aeternae numismatics " for $5000 !!!
As you can imagine I was rolling on the floor laughing my ass off, they described it as a possible " prototype " and a one off.
HILARIOUS !!!!!
Obverse - CONSTANTINOPLI - helmeted and cuirassed bust left, sceptre over shoulder
Reverse - GLORIA EXECITVS - Two soldiers with 2 standards between
Mint - PLG - Lyon
Weight - 1.17g
Size - 14mm

Offline Victor

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4080
  • Country: us
  • all my best friends are dead Romans
    • Victor's Imperial Coins
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 09:44:07 AM »
It's a really nice example. The Constantinopolis with two soldiers type was issued from Eastern mints, but not from Western mints...at least I haven't seen any that were not unofficial.

The seller you mentioned is well-known for his exuberant pricing, mostly on eBay. I have included a picture of his coin and the description of it. This coin is different from yours since the bust isn't wearing a helmet and doesn't have a reverse spear over the shoulder-- but certainly not worthy of the hyperbole and hefty price tag. The seller also doesn't seem to realize that the coin is not official.

"Unpublished, Unique (Early Prototype?). Size: 16mm, 2.03g. Professional Numismatic Notes: Around 330AD the mints of the Roman Empire began minting a series of coinage commemorating the founding of Constantinople, and also a series commemorating the existing capital of Rome. On these coins, typically you see a personification of Constantinople named Constantinopolis, and the reverse usually of a victory or soldiers and standards. This coin is a unique and heretofore unknown type in this series, featuring a Constantinian bust instead of the city deity. The legends are clearly that of a Constantinople commemorative. My hypothesis is that this coin may represent the earliest attempt at minting the commemorative series, but instead of utilizing a new obverse type they merely changed the legends of an existing type. This coin grades in good VF with a pleasing untouched and natural green and yellow patina. There is some patina flaws on the obverse, and a large surface scratch on the reverse. This may be the only chance you'll ever get to own this coin or a coin of this type in general!"

Offline tenbobbit

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
  • Country: gb
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 02:43:45 PM »
I think he's from a different planet Victor, but if there is no record of 1 selling somewhere he can invent whatever price/story he likes. We know  ;)
The question I have now is this - Is this a copy or fantasy imitation ? Contemporary ofcourse.
If its a copy then what were they copying from ? Another copy ?  etc,etc.
Or is it more likely that 2 different engravers are at work here for the 2 dies ?
Certainly more interesting than a lot of official coins I own.

Offline Victor

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4080
  • Country: us
  • all my best friends are dead Romans
    • Victor's Imperial Coins
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 03:17:10 PM »
The question I have now is this - Is this a copy or fantasy imitation ? Contemporary ofcourse.

When you are talking about unofficial coins, anything is fair game. The engravers did not have to produce coins that exactly mirrored official coinage. For example, I had a coin with a Helena obverse paired with a SARMATIA DEVICTA reverse. A type like this was never officially minted. I also have a Constantine I obverse paired with an ALAMANNIA DEVICTA, which was never minted for Constantine. I have seen the obverse and reverse of VRBS ROMA and CONSTANTINOPOLIS coins swapped around also. So for your coin, it may have just been a CONSTANTINOPOLIS obverse incorrectly paired with a two soldiers reverse, or the engraver perhaps saw some of these coins from the Eastern mints and decided to make a Lugdunum version.

Offline ae22

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: us
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 11:14:01 AM »
Hello

Nice coin tenbobbit.

Just to add another one of these to this post, here is one I have with another western mink mark, Trier.

Does anyone have a photo of an official coin from an eastern mint?

Offline Victor

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4080
  • Country: us
  • all my best friends are dead Romans
    • Victor's Imperial Coins
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2015, 11:51:13 AM »
Does anyone have a photo of an official coin from an eastern mint?

I have had a few over the years...below is an example from Heraclea

A.D. 336-7
16.5mm   2.0gm
CONSTAN-TINOPOLI  laureate, helmeted, wearing imperial mantle, holding reversed spear.
GLOR-IA EXERC-ITVS dot, Two soldiers helmeted, stg. facing one another, reversed spear in outer hands, inner hands on shields resting on ground; between them one standard.
In ex.  SMH gamma
RIC VII Heraclea 157


Offline ae22

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: us
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2015, 12:13:46 PM »
Thanks Victor

I have a couple of these with one standard, but to clarify, what I was referring to is whether there are any pictures of official issues of the two standard types.

I don't have RIC, but I think they are mentioned. Helvetica mentions them, but I've never seen a picture of one.

Offline Victor

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4080
  • Country: us
  • all my best friends are dead Romans
    • Victor's Imperial Coins
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 01:07:25 PM »
I have a couple of these with one standard, but to clarify, what I was referring to is whether there are any pictures of official issues of the two standard types.

I don't have RIC, but I think they are mentioned. Helvetica mentions them, but I've never seen a picture of one.

I have never seen an official issue of these with two standards, and as far as I know, they were only officially issued after the reform of A.D. 335 when the number of nummi to a pound was raised to 196, so they were issued after the change to one standard. I looked at Dane's excel sheet for these coins and she has made a mistake in listing the Cyzicus types as having the GE reverse as they are all just regular Constantinopolis issues, she must have misread RIC. For example, she has Cyzicus 92 as having a GE reverse, but I have had several of these...below is an example.

Offline ae22

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: us
Re: Constantinople commemorative with Gloria Exercitus reverse
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 01:59:31 PM »
Very good,  thank you for that info.