Constantius II FTR fallen horseman from Thessalonica die match

[Victor]

I just got these two in and believe that they share the same obverse die. I think the reverse might be the same also, but they look a bit different due to one not having as sharp a strike. Both are RIC VIII Thessalonica 129, issued by Vetranio. The first is 5.6 gm and the second is 5.1gm.


Constantius II
A.D. 350
D N CONSTANTIVS P F AVG; pearl diademed, draped and cuirassed, A behind bust.
FEL TEMP RE-PARATIO; Soldier spearing fallen horseman, in left field A.
In ex. TS∆
RIC VIII Thessalonica 129

I have another obverse matched pair that I will post later.

[Nikko]

i would say a double die match

[seth]

A lot of dies made during this short period for Constantius II appear to be carved by the same hand:

[Victor]

Here is another pair that are obverse die matches, also Thessalonica 129 and both fully silvered.

[Genio popvli romani]

Great !!

Regarding the freshness of the coins, I assume that they are probably coming from the same find. And so, we can suppose they have been hoarded "just out of the mint".
Always interesting to have some specimen issued with the same dies. If you can appreciate (which is not always easy) the wear  of the obverse die, you can deduce the chronology of the reverse die use.

[six2ten]

I'm curious to understand on what basis you've allocated these to RIC 129 instead of 123?

Regards

Allan

[Genio popvli romani]

Weight. 129 is c. 5,2g while 123 is the half (diameter is also different). 

[Victor]

what basis you've allocated these to RIC 129 instead of 123?

Weight. 129 is c. 5,2g while 123 is the half (diameter is also different). 

Yes, the diameter for 123 is 17- 19mm, while 129 is 21- 23mm

Regarding the freshness of the coins, I assume that they are probably coming from the same find. And so, we can suppose they have been hoarded "just out of the mint".

These coins all came from the same lot I bought from someone in Germany. There were 10 coins in total- 6 were FTR fallen horsemen and 4 were FTR victory steering galley and all that had readable mintmarks were from Thessalonica. I have to assume these were from the same find, as the chances of these coins being together otherwise is unbelievable. Most of the fallen horsemen are also silvered, but my pictures do not show that so well.


Below is the other fallen horseman

Constantius II
A.D. 348- 350
23x25mm  6.3gm
D N CONSTANTIVS P F AVG; pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed, globe in right hand.
FEL TEMP RE-PARATIO; Soldier spearing fallen horseman.
In ex. TS epsilon *
RIC VIII Thessalonica 115

[Genio popvli romani]

Stunning !!
What a bust ! What a reverse !
Great purchase.

[six2ten]

Thanks for the replies. I interpret RIC differently however 

While the closest weight reference above 122 and 123 is for the half, there is also a new series heading for these 2 coins. Further, the same references are used by Kent for 123 and 129, I.e L1650-5, and the 5 officina for each RIC reference have the same collection attestations

So I think that this is another example where Kent provided the same coin with 2 references, in order to maintain what he considered the internal logic of each separate issue, even if the coins were indistinguishable

[Genio popvli romani]

Good point !
So the real question should be : Has anyone ever seen a example of 123 ?
I've checked a few ones (~20) and all have characteristics matching with 129.

[Victor]

Thanks for the replies. I interpret RIC differently however 

Yes, good catch, I had not noticed that the same collection numbers were used. This happens a few times in RIC. I will attribute them as RIC VIII Thessalonica 123/129.

[six2ten]

Good point !
So the real question should be : Has anyone ever seen a example of 123 ?
I've checked a few ones (~20) and all have characteristics matching with 129.

It could be the other way around, I.e has anyone seen an example of 129 ... I suggest this as the recent sales of coins in this general series from Thessaloniki have been the earlier coins, and not the later series that includes 129 (eg Pecunem)