Mix 'n' Match strikes again

[Heliodromus]

We've talked about these Diocletian fakes before, which range from the plausible to the absurd.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not totally obvious whether these are transfer dies or just modern. The bust is certainly plausible from Carthage.

In addition to these sloppy mix-n-match die pairings, another characteristic of these coins is the range of artificial patination, with some preference for lighter high-point highlights over a darker base.

There's been another pair of coins discussed on FORVM that seem to share these same mix-n-match and artificial patina characteristics, and would therefore appear to be from the same source.

 

 

In this case it's the reverse die that is in common, paired with either a modern obverse of Daia as caesar to create a fantasy mule, or a much more plausible Daia as augustus, that might be a transfer die. Multiple copies of each type have been seen, from these same two die pairings. The above two coins are actually from the same U.Gottingen collection !

The Daia as augustus version seems quite dangerous (as much as a low cost fake can be). In of itself it looks quite plausible, although none of the patinas exactly suggest authentic Alexandria. It's really the multiple specimens from this die pair, linked to the obvious fake, that would seem to condemn them. It's certainly been good enough to fool many experts. In addition to above one from from U.Gottingen collection (found by Lech) here are examples from CNG sale #352, and HJB current bid-buy # 218 (found by Din X).

 

 

The photo of the last coin isn't really true to life. HJB also provide a video which shows it to have strange glossy patina that looks considerably different.

It's interesting to compare the patinas of these coins to those of some of the Diocletians.

[Heliodromus]

As per their Mix 'n' Match MO, thanks to Lech it turns out that the Victoria Romanorvm reverse noted above has also seen it's own varied pairings.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/notinric/6ant-59b_fake.html

Carthage-style Diocletian

 

Antioch-style Diocletian

 

Jovian

 

[Heliodromus]

Thanks to the eagle eye of Din X over on FORVM, and a die-linked coin noted by Lech on Not In RIC, we now have another Diocletian obverse and another Antioch Genio K-V reverse die linked to these mix 'n' match fakes.

Edit: I see we already have the Diocletian obverse here, paired with the Victoria Romanorvm reverse.

I'm adding these all here as they turn up to have them all in one place.

 

 

[Heliodromus]

Here's a summary of what's been seen so far.

Leftmost column is all the obverses, and each row shows the reverses that obverse has been paired with.

Top four of leftmost column are most dangerous since they correctly pair obverse and reverse. and these have passed at venues such as CNG, HJB, Triskeles, Jesus Vico.

One odd aspect of these fakes is that copies of at least four of them have been found in the University of Göttingen collection.

 

[Victor]

Without seeing the matches, most of these are pretty convincing. Thanks for putting this together.

[six2ten]

Here's a summary of what's been seen …

One odd aspect of these fakes is that copies of at least four of them have been found in the University of Göttingen collection.

Thanks Ben. To note, the ‘tetra follis’ coin at the bottom of column 1 has been in my collection since the early 1980s so these have been around a long time. I suspect there will be plenty more to be found, but at least the use of some wild die combinations will help track them down

[Heliodromus]

Here's another pairing of these dies, and an updated summary.

 

I think this bust is actually from/copying (these are mostly transfer dies) Alexandria rather than Antioch, so presumably there's also the intended/original obverse of the Antioch K-V yet to be seen.

It's interesting that these have been around for so long.

 

[Lech Stępniewski]

What is the source (weight, diameter) of this new fake? I should also include this.

[Heliodromus]

That one's 26mm 9.26g - sold on eBay August 2010.

[Lech Stępniewski]

Thanks!

[Joshmaggosh]

Ugh... I saw this and immediately knew I had one of these. I bought the below coin for about $11 as a low priced snack on eBay on 1/22/21. I don't believe the seller had any idea it was fake. I'll probably reach out to him however.

Anyway, at the time this coin arrived, I had some second glances at the patina and the way it was flaking in spots, especially on the reverse. However, for such a worn looking coin... I accepted it. But seeing this thread, I thought of it immediately, so thank you!

Diocletian Antioch RIC VI 54a

[KostasAlexander]

One of these just appeared on VCoins from LAC

 

[Adriaan78]

I send them an e-mail this afternoon. I think they removed the coin, it is not on their sold list. Terrible fake…