FEL TEMP Phoenix types

[Victor]

The FEL TEMP phoenix reverse has three different types. The first, is the phoenix on a globe (1st picture below)- the globe represents the cosmos. The second type (2nd picture below) is a phoenix on a mound/pyre. You see different descriptions because it is not known for sure if the phoenix is standing on a rocky mound or maybe emerging from a pyre. The rocky mound is supported by the third type though. This reverse (3rd picture below-- Rome 141) is from Rome and is very rare; maybe so rare that it should only be called a variation of the second type. It has a phoenix on what looks like a rocky nest, though it could just be a different portrayal of a pyre.

There is a Roman mosaic from the 6th century depicting a phoenix on a mound. It is from Daphne, a suburb of Antioch on the Orontes (now Antkaya) and is currently in the Louvre Museum, Paris.

http://www.puc-rio.br/louvre/francais/musee/collec/collager.htm

It is the mosaic referenced in RIC VIII--

For a mosaic representation of "Phoenix on rocks", see F. van der Meer & C. Mohrmann, Atlas, 101, fig. 290.  Footnote 11 pg 36

[tenbobbit]

Very interesting coin Victor,
 if coin 2 is as we know a " rocky mound " then this surely has to be a Pyre. ( I am a little dubious of the rocky mound theory )
The extra bits sticking out the sides would have to be a representation of the flames if it is a Pyre, why do the extra detailing if they are bits of kindling or similar sticking out of the rocks which as a point of reference don't appear on the " mound/ pile " type.
I am not as well learned as yourself Victor so excuse me if what I say next has already been discussed in the past,
Do the 3 types form a meaningful chronology ?
Is the Phoenix emerging from the burning pyre then sitting on a mound of ashes before ascending to the stars, namely the constellation of PHOENIX.
I put it in this order as the Phoenix has to die on the burning Pyre 1st before it can be seen standing on a pile of ? The cosmos issue then fills the chronology.
Rather than this being a variation of type 2 it appears to make more sense that it is type 1 in the chronology. ( in my head )

My apologies if I sound like I am thinking out loud but I cant get the theory out of my head ever since I looked at it 

[Victor]

that's a good question about the chronology...which came first, the chicken or the egg?   

I didn't assign a chronology to the types when I listed them, but I probably should have.

I looked it up, and most mints that issued both types (I am excluding the rocky nest, due to its rarity), started with mound first and then globe. So out of the mints that issued both types, the four most western mints issued mound then globe and the two most eastern issued globe then mound.

• Lyons ----  Mound  Globe
• Trier  ----   Mound  Globe
• Arles -----  Mound   Globe
• Rome ----  Mound  Globe
• Aquileia --  Globe   Mound
• Cyzicus --- Globe   Mound

so out of the cities that struck both types, mound then globe was in the majority.


the other cities that only issued one type...the two most western issued mounds and the rest issued globes.

• Siscia -----------   Mound
• Sirmium --------  Mound
• Heraclea ---------  Globe
• Constantinople --  Globe
• Nicomedia -------  Globe
• Antioch -----------  Globe
• Alexandria -------- Globe

so out of the mints that only struck one type, the globe was in the majority.




below are the types from Bruck. Missing is the rocky nest, because that is, as far as I know, a unique example, and Bruck only used the Vienna collection for his book.

[tenbobbit]

Many thanks for all the extra info Victor, when I get some spare time I will bury my head into it as it really has got me thinking.
Damion