Author Topic: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome  (Read 6355 times)

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Offline romeman

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Re: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 07:41:39 AM »
Perhaps I can add a few details to this. The "coin" is a modern cast. Imprints were taken from a genuine coin, they were used to make a mould, and the coin was cast. However, the obverse and reverse imprints were a bit offset, so that the seam between the two is clearly seen on the side of the coin. The photo detail below shows how the reverse side extends beyond the obverse.

Such casts are sadly not uncommon. A similarly produced example is also attached here.

If the obverse and reverse were taken from a single coin, it would be a very rare one. The type from Rome - VIRTVS AVGG with 4 turrets and open doors - is always rare. In total, there are 32 known examples (in all museums and private hands). The variety with Constantine in bust G8 left (I call it RIC190B) is known from a single example, from officina P (see below), but none from off. S. The original of the cast would be the first one.

Offline tjaart

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Re: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2016, 11:26:19 AM »
Thanks for the extensive info. I appreciate it a lot. So in your opinion it is a modern fake?

That is a pity :/

Thanks!
Tjaart

Offline tjaart

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Re: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2020, 03:55:32 PM »
Hi all,

I thought I would resurrect this specific topic as I am going through my collection taking photographs and updating/fixing entries. While taking the photo for this coin, I noticed that it seems to have what looks like an internal copper core with some of the corrosion showing through. Would the prevailing opinion still be that this example is a modern cast? Or could it be ancient cast given the corrosion?

 


Looking forward to your latest thoughts.

T

Offline romeman

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Re: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 10:50:09 AM »
Unfortunately, the metal visible under the corrosion products is no clue to age. The forgers are experts in creating artificial corrosion, from a slight surface pitting to near complete replacement of the metal with corrosion products. I have several such forgeries in my collection.

Ancient casts are interesting. During the tetrarchy there were real factories producing cast coins in clay molds. I have seen hundreds of such clay molds, but very few of the casts thus produced. Presumably the casts went to the melting pots when found by the authorities.

During the period of concern here, around 318-321, very few such casts were produced, if any. There are no such clay molds to my knowledge. Instead, the forgers produced dies and struck coins. They either used their own metal, or when possible, the “illegal” coins of Licinius. When Constantine and Licinius fell out, coins produced in mints under Licinius ceased to be legal tender in the west. They basically became worthless. But the forgers used them as flans, striking western types with their new dies. Such overstruck coins are common.

This particular coin could theoretically be an exception, a cast produced at about the time of the original. But in my view, the likelihood is far greater that it is a modern product.

Offline Victor

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Re: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 10:58:38 AM »

It doesn't look like there is a copper core. I would guess that the coppery looking bits may have been something else that was in contact with the coin. I have several coins that have gotten stuck together because of corrosion. The presence of such corrosion does seem to indicate older rather than more recent for the coin.

Offline tjaart

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Re: Unlisted/unofficial? campgate from Rome
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2020, 02:53:10 PM »
Thanks to both of you. For now I will keep it my likely modern but uncertain pile :/

Thanks!

Tjaart